This past year I wrote about the incident at Varginha Brazil where eyewitnesses saw a crashed disc along with two beings, which were described consistently between all eyewitnesses. This story caused a huge stir in Brazil at the time, and U.F.O. researcher and doctor who has removed “foreign bodies” (possible tracking devices) Roger Leir, went to Varginha to investigate the case. He published a book on the incident which involved numerous eyewitnesses and a good deal of corroborating evidence for the testimonies given. That post is HERE. The interview I am including was conducted after he published his initial findings only to get more details about the case later, which are included, both old and new material.
The story is an amazing one and surpasses the Roswell incident in large part because of how secrecy is treated differently in Brazil. Here in the U.S., a stiff lid was put over the Roswell incident and people were threatened, some were bribed. A careful cleanup was done and stories which had said there was a crashed disc recovered was turned into a weather balloon, and there were people who had seen the real wreckage who had to play along as if the new narrative was the real one when it wasn’t, effectively having to take part in the government coverup of the century. Over the following sixty years the U.S. government would change its story a total of six times in what had become something of a joke in Ufology. In Varginha, however, there were eyewitnesses who came forward, some who saw the being some twenty feet away. There was a being that died and another that had a broken leg. We know this because a doctor near the army base operated on the being and provided his testimony to Roger Lier. The being, which had been placed on a fireman’s lap and driven to another facility resulted in that man contracting a disease and dying soon after. Much of this took place in full daylight. There were nurses who would come forward later to tell what they had seen. The case continued to expand over time and more details came to light. As Roswell was shut down and contracted, in Leir’s words, the Varginha (said like “Virginia”) case expanded. Further, it took place less than 30 years ago. Roswell was in the mid nineteen-forties.
I mentioned in this post how a doctor at a local hospital worked on an extraterrestrial being, ordering up x-rays and blood work all in an effort to set a broken leg. It was during his work that the being took control of the body of the doctor and moved his hands in order to properly set the broken bone. It was at this point that the being ‘downloaded’ a flurry of information into the doctor’s mind, which he described as feeling like someone had hit his head with a hammer. The being told the doctor many things but he only told Leir two of the things he was told by the brown colored being with the height of a child. You will get to read what those things were in the interview below.
Additionally, ufo investigator Richard Fox recently published a documentary on the event in this town (Moment Of Contact) and left out the bulk of what Roger Leir describes in the interview, which is an interaction with one of the ET’s that were captured. For the life of me, I have no idea why this important piece of the story would have been left out of that documentary. It seems to me that if you are going to investigate something like this, you will include all of the known details, many of which were taken from Leir’s earlier published work. How crazy would it be after recovering a crashed disk with townspeople walking up to, and seeing one of the beings, only to leave out the role a doctor played in working on one of the injured ET’s? You spend so much effort and so many resources to get down there from the U.S. and then leave this incredibly important piece out of the picture? It must have been a decision of some kind that completely eludes me. This is why I have gone to the trouble of transcribing parts of the interview for you to read here, because I think it is an important piece of the story to know about.
Leir came on to talk about the incident and the investigation that he undertook with Art Bell on Coast To Coast, a late night radio show on the a.m. channel band on 8/29/2004. I have transcribed part of the interview since Leir had more details to add since the case had expanded more after his book was published.
Roger Leir was a board certified surgical podiatrist who worked in the L.A. area of California before his passing in 2014. He was involved in the study of U.F.O. encounters and then later, he became involved in removing foreign objects from people who often had abduction experiences with extraterrestrials. His findings and theories surrounding these objects were that while simple in appearance and design, may have been constructed in order to be benign in the body while acting as a beacon for ET’s. Many of the objects, placed in various parts of the body, often exhibited strange behavior (like being able to move in some cases). Additionally, when analyzed, most of the objects contained isotopes of iron and other trace metals that are not local to Earth. Leir has described his experiences in a number of books which he has written such as The Alien and the Scalpel and UFO Crash In Brazil: A Genuine UFO Crash With Surviving ET’s.
The Varginha crash took place on January 20th 1996. Since that time and since the publishing of his book on the topic many more details have come to light, which are covered here.
Art: Well back to Brazil. You had the opportunity to interview some physicians there, is that Correct?
Roger: Well, one physician, I was saying “physicians” before because I had synthetically multiplied the number of people I had talked to in order to protect the one doctor.
Art: I see. One physician. The doctor you interviewed, uhm, let’s roll through that interview a little bit, right? Exactly how did it go and what did you ask, and what did he say?
Roger: Okay. We knew that one of these creatures or beings was taken to two hospitals in Varginha. In one of the hospitals, which was Hospital Regionale, one of these beings underwent some treatment.
Art: Wow. You are telling me this creature was, what, taken to the hospital by the military there?
Roger: The being was taken to the hospital by two military personnel, one actually held the creature on his lap and took it to the hospital.
Art: Really?!
Roger: There’s another story because that person died within two weeks after exposure to the creature.
Art: Cause of death??
Roger: Uh, a total secret until recently probably because we just recently had a conference in there where another doctor who treated this individual I understand has come forth and has been spilling the beans as we talk and I will have that information shortly.
Art: Suspicions?
Roger: The sister of the deceased military police officer describes symptoms that to me is very similar to Ebola.
Art: Oh my God.
Roger: So everyone says why don’t they land on the White House lawn and come out and shake hands??
Art: Yeah…
Roger: Maybe if they did we wouldn’t be around long to talk about it.
Art: Well I don’t know, doctor, for a long time I have been very suspicious and uneasy with the majority opinion in the ufo community that these are warm and fuzzy things. I have never felt that and I always felt very strongly the possibility that no matter how you look at this…and I stand back and look at the reproductive experiments and that kind of thing and, you know, I am not thinking they are acting in our favor, and I am not so comfortable with the fact that they are warm and fuzzy little creatures and I think that the ufo community better get over it.
Roger: I think that my advice to the ufo community in general is they better wake up and get scientific and drop some of the illusions that have been floating around for years.
Art: Good luck.
Roger: But who knows. But back to the story which is so so important.
Art: Please.
Roger: One of these creatures was injured and that was the one that was sat on this poor soul’s lap and was taken to Hospital Regionale, uh, met there by a military contingent who took over a portion of the hospital, the surgical wing….and this is not a big place to begin with. And there the creature underwent some kind of treatment, we didn’t know until this witness had heard that I was coming to town and called Ubijar Rodriguez and said that he would be willing to talk to me, not as any kind of UFO investigator but as a colleague.
Art: Yes, yes.
Roger: So a meeting was arranged and nothing was allowed to be taped, there was no video, there was no recording of any kind. We met him. I took my travelling companion who was acting as my camera man and his son who acted as translator.
Art: Why…why this provision for no recording equipment?
Roger: This man was frightened to death. This was for him a catharsis. He had not spoken to anyone in six years. He was threatened not only with the loss of his job and wife but also with a little more serious stuff.
Art: That would do it. That would do it, so alright so obviously no recording equipment. So, uhm, he had his neck really wrung out by the military down there.
Roger: Exactly. When we got there and the meeting took place, his disclaimer was the first thing out of his lips. “This didn’t happen to me, these are rumors, these are things I heard about, I have no relationship at all, etcetera etcetera. If you want to hear this I am willing to tell you about it.” Well absolutely, so we sat down and started the questions rolling and the answers I got was through interpretation. However, when it came to the medical terminology and the medical lingo, we were one to one. It didn’t make any difference whether he was speaking Portuguese and I was speaking English.
Art: Yeah, makes sense.
Roger: We were able to understand and I got more knowledge out of that than what came from the interpreters lips.
Art: Then tell me about that.
Roger: Well, as I said, he started with a disclaimer and he started talking about the events and what happened.
Art: That’s what I want to know, what was the events and what did happen?
Roger: He was not told what this was, it was some emergency. There was military in the hospital. And that wasn’t surprising because they had accidents happen on the base and they took in people, so he wasn’t surprised to see a military contingent in the hospital at all. He was taken in and asked to go into the surgical wing of the hospital and military guards after he went into a closed off area and he asked what was going on and he was told it was none of his business and it was his job to follow directions and to do as he was told. To cut this down some, there was something lying on the table that was short and covered with a drape sheet and he is thinking oh my this is something…because it is probably a child and is a serious injury. So the door were shut and he was told don’t come out until he has resolved the medical problem. You know, don’t ask questions and just do your thing, very matter of fact. Make sure the patient is alive and then he can come out. So he was there with the surgical personnel, there were some x-rays up on the viewbox, they looked at the x-rays and found that there was a compound fracture of the leg, and at that point he started back to the table and rolled back the drape and was horrified because he looked at it and he thought that this was some kind of terrible horrible deformity, but as he began to examine what was laying was laying there he realized this wasn’t a human being at all.
Art: Not at all.
Roger: What he described was very similar to what the girls [other earlier witnesses who saw the being out in an empty lot between buildings in the town] described, almost five feet in length, with a large head and thin neck, brown oily colored skin, no body hair, no facial hair, no mustache, a tiny little nose…
Art: And he gave it to you in that detail?
Roger: Yes, in that detail. Oh I am glad you asked that because at this point his demeanor had begun to change and he had to watch this as a witness and watch this and he is understanding now the emotion that had been filling the room. It was a short time after this that it wasn’t hard to understand that these weren’t rumors. He was the guy. [he hadn’t actually heard rumors – he was there]
Art: I got it. It wasn’t human, so apparently it had what we would think of as a leg and it was obviously a broken bone.
Roger: Yeah, there was a broken leg with a bone sticking out through the hip.
Art: So we know already that the metabolism is fairly similar to humans in some similar ways…the construction of…
Roger: Yeah we went into a lot of detail which I don’t have time to go into it all but I will mention a few things. I asked him about the blood and the bone and what is the blood like? Is it blue? Does it jump around on the floor? He said no, the blood is very similar to human blood even with the cellular constituents with one large exception was that there are a group of white cells called platelets and the platelet reading is about ten times higher than in human blood and that it clotted almost immediately after it came out of the vein/. He didn’t know if this was due to increased platelets or if the blood was being exposed to an atmosphere that was different from the place this thing had come from. He said the bone was very thin and was more akin to human bone and it contained what are called lacunae, and these are holes, these are apertures in the bone and he said it almost looked like osteoporotic bone which is uh in human is diseased bone, where the calcium drops out but, but because of this internal lacunae, the tensile strength of the bone is much much stronger than human bone. He knew what he had to do was to put the bone back in and set the fracture and so on..
Art: Yes.
Roger: And at some point he lost control and that whatever was happening was, whatever was laying there was controlling the movement of his hands.
Art: Holy mackerel!
Roger: And he approximated the bones and when they were proximated, when they were together…
Art: Stop you for a question. Was there any anesthetic that was…
Roger: Yes. They were afraid to administer a gas, anesthesia, because he didn’t know what his respiratory system was like. They guessed that it wold react to a local anesthesia and he used it, but even then they weren’t sure what it was feeling. [They administered a local instead]
Art: Yeah exactly.
Roger: Once the bones were approximated he said he couldn’t move it.
Art: Did the creature make any noise?
Roger: No. No movement on the table but it had head turning movements. There were a lot of rumors in this case and some of the rumors indicated that these beings made a buzzing noise like a bunch of bees, but I couldn’t find that and I couldn’t get any testimony of that but there are supposedly some witnesses that…
Art: So at some point in the treatment the doctor felt that those movements were not his at all?
Roger: That is correct. He tried to explain it as best as he could by automatic movements of the hands that kind of guided his fingers to do what he was doing. You know the closest thing I have ever heard of thjis is when Spock is putting himself together (chuckle) but anyway they fixed the wound without external fixation which means no plates, no pins, no wires because when the bone was proximated, you couldn’t move it.
Art: You mean the whole thing healed right away?
Roger: The thing healed within 24 hours. Bone and fissure.
Art: Oh….Oh my goodness! This is hot stuff.
Roger: Well it’s an amazingly emotional story and there was an episode that I will finish with here which is even more amazing which I wont go into all of the detail but there was a telepathic communication between the being and the doctor. And he said it was like downloading large amounts of information into his head and it felt like someone was hitting him over the head with a hammer.
Art: And the nature of the information?
Roger: I will get to that. He said that it was making him sick like migraine headaches that lasted for two weeks afterwards.
Art: But he knew he was getting it.
Roger: He knew he was getting it and I asked him what he learned from the creature and he said I am only going to tell you a very little bit at this meeting. And I said “okay, go..” And he said the first thing the creature said he felt sorry for human beings. And I said why? His answer was because the creature said we could do everything that they could do but we didn’t know how to do it. And number two, the other reason why he felt sorry for human beings and this is very very prophetic, was because we were totally detached from our spiritual self.
Art: Well…..that may be so.
Roger: Now when this interview was finished uh all I can do is verbally describe…here is a man who hasn’t spoken to a soul in six years telling us his story he is not sitting in a chair with his head bent over and his hands in front of him, shaking, with tears running down his face.
[Excerpt break]
Art: Is there any indication Dr. Leir that the US government at any level were aware of this and got involved in this whole thing?
Roger: Yes, yes, yes.
But a very famous doctor, who was the famous autopsy specialist and pathologist that describe the bones of Mengele and he was brought there by military contingent and there were US military on the scene[to perform an autopsy on the dead ET]. No kidding. And plus when I was there before, I brought back some agreements that were between the US, and NASA and the Brazilian government, and there’s one that was signed by Warren Christopher. And the agreement essentially was that they would allow the United States access to all non-terrestrial material obtained, in Brazil. And because of that, they would give back all the results of what they found from back engineering for use in the private sector.
One of these, one of these documents is on my website for folks, it’s like gold, and the website is alienscalpel.com [Note: since Leir’s passing his site is no longer operative and the domain has been taken over by someone completely different, sadly]
Art: You know, so far it sounds to me, like, it puts Roswell in the backseat.
Roger: Well it does. Roswell, let’s say, is a contracting case and this is an ever-expanding case. Also, we’re dealing with different kinds of people, both of them harassed but you got to remember that the government and the military in Brazil is a little bit different than what we have here.
Art: Are these beings still alive?
Roger: Well, I guess we should finish the story.
Art: What happened to the being that was in the hospital? You know what happened?
Roger: I asked the doctor. I said “what happened?” And he said the being after 24 hours was taken by the military contingent out the back door of the hospital and taken away alive, and was well and alive. And well, I said, what condition was he in? And he said he was in satisfactory medical condition. Now, what does that mean? Well, we have categories that we classify patients. If a movie star is injured and in the hospital we say they are in critical condition. Those are all specific terminologies used to describe how the individual is, but when you say a patient is in a satisfactory medical condition, that means the individuals’ vital signs are all normal and present. And the patient is ambulatory, in good condition in the hospital. All right, so he left alive…
Art: And coming back for one second…inevitably there’s going to be some blood work and chemistry normally ordered, I would think.
Roger: Well there was because he was able to describe the new details of the blood. There was labs done, there was x-rays taken. All of this was removed. But he saw it all, he saw it all. But, you know, again my quest for going, there was the hope of bringing back physical evidence, right? But just almost as important as physical evidence itself, sometimes it’s reliable eyewitness testimony. Yeah, first-person stuff like this.
Art: You bet.
Roger: So anyway he saw the being leave the facility in good condition, or in okay condition satisfactory, right? And well, now, we have eyewitness testimony again that says that this being was taken and with several adjoining vehicles immediately to another hospital called Hugh Monica’s Hospital [sic – this name may be improperly transcribed- ed.), probably taken in that hospital and the following day three trucks pulled up to the back of the hospital. Each looking like the other military truck, flatbed with canvas cover. A box, something like a casket, was loaded onto the back of one of these trucks and this being was placed in it and taken away. So, within 24 hours, something approximating, a casket. So at this point, at this point, all indications are, is that he is dead. Now again, there were some nursing testimony. [One nurse] said that whatever the reason they administered high dosages of oxygen. So there’s an attempt to resuscitate it and either the oxygen killed it or it died from God knows what other causes.
Art: Well, if the… if the attempt was to resuscitated, the presumption would be it was already in distress at the point they tried the oxygen trick, huh.
Roger: Right. And you know, the rest is all conjecture. But you know, again I have my own opinion that might be absolute baloney, and I’ll put that out as a disclaimer, but I think that the being, that says [to the doctor whom Leir interviewed], it’s in touch with its spirit and can can heal itself or with others without being in a facility. This is one of the things it really did to the doctor. Any being with that kind of control seems to me has the ability to leave its body…carcass behind and go to a better place.
Art: Yeah, maybe.
Roger: It was intelligent enough, and it got a dose of our primitive hospital facilities. It realizes I’m not going back where I came from. So goodbye, you know.
Art: Yeah, this is incredible stuff. So is there going to be an effort to officially in some way? Get these Witnesses together. I mean, it sounds like a monster story. Just a gigantic story and, well, worthy of the kind of attention that was lavished on Roswell, only maybe even a lot more because this is recent.
Roger: Oh yeah, yeah, and I said, he did it. It’s unfolding as we speak. There’s differences again, you know, the military to our duty is much less Vision United States these guys retire. And after they retire, they feel they’re not bound by some of the military oath and they talk. Oh, and I started to say that, There’s a difference. Also, in the ways of the Brazilian people have been treated by their military over the years. You got to remember the part of that government, you know, was a bunch of jackbooted thugs. So, and they treated people in a despicable manner. So they were used to, you know, to living under that. We’re not [used to that] here. So, you know, they become defiant.
Art: By the way I suppose it’s worth asking you, whether you ran into any of that kind of go, Audrey attitude when you were there. In other words here, you were a sniffing around into something that the guys would deduct boots could have been that happy about.
Roger: Well, I was having a little trepidation because I thought, yeah, this is what we pulled up in front of the fire department. And bureaucrats there says you’re not legally allowed even to take a video or photographs of the front of this place. But, you know, I’m going to get out of the car and I can walk over here and I can’t stop you from filming or taking pictures of me.
Two fellows came out and he had a conversation with him and he was waving at us to get out of the car and we went in there and they created this like like we are colleagues, we even put on the uniforms and and took pictures with them. So and we saw the very fire truck that was used and the capture of one of these beings.
[They allowed this because] the people are actually in rebellion against being treated that way. And so I guess I would conclude from that that they think is just words and that the threats are not real or else, they wouldn’t be acting that way, at least some of them, you know.
[Excerpt on his interview with the wife of the military policeman who had died from contact with the being follows]
I did about 20 minute interview with her and it was really enlightening because she told me…nothing. Every single question I asked her, she had no answer for and I asked a very specific question. Did you look at the medical records of your husband? What were the symptoms, right? How long was he home before he went into the hospital, right? Did you go to the funeral where he was buried? All of the answers were I don’t know. No, I didn’t get anything. Got a death certificate? I don’t get any compensation from the Brazilian government. I don’t get anything for the military. Do you have children? How do you live? I don’t know.
Basic questions about the death of your husband that I don’t see how there could be non-answers.
But there are others, for example, of some of the interesting stories were the wives of the men who are serving on the base. They are used to their husband’s coming home on weekends. They are on the base for 5 days.
Art: Sure.
Roger: So they come home and they have plans with the wives and families.
Art: Sure.
Roger: Well, this episode occurs and a weekend happens. The husband’s didn’t come home, but the wives had plans. So the following week, they went into the local hairdressers and they were talking to the hairdresser’s and they were complaining, my husband didn’t come home because they were chasing aliens around the countryside!
–End–
So what do you think? Does the content of this interview warrant being left out of a documentary? I am curious to know what you think!
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